Many times the Shia are attacked by the Ahlul Sunni wa Jamma  on the way we combine the Duhr prayer with the Asr  and the Mughrib with the Isha. They claim that this is haram and that Salah is intended to be prayed individually. They also claim that this was only done by the Prophet (saw)  when he was on a journey, state of fear or during rainfall, and this sunna of the prophet can’t be practiced any other way. So how do we respond to this? First of let me make it clear that Shia do not say that there is anything whatsoever wrong with praying the individual prayers separately. We claim that the Duhr and Asr prayers and Mughrib and Isha prayers can be offered either together or separately and that it is mustahab action to pray them separately.

When we read Quran we read that we are supposed to pray, But the Quran does not tell you how to pray. For this we follow the Sunna (the way) of Prophet(saw). So when we read the Quran on when to pray it splits times of prayer into THREE sections. Examples:                                                                                                         

Quran Surah: 11 (HUD) Verse:114- And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hour of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds; this is a reminder to the mindful.                                                              

Quran Surah: 17 (The Israelites) Verse: 78- Keep up prayer from the declining Sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.                                                     

Quran Surah: 20 (Taha) Verse:130- Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by praising Him before the rising of sun and before it’s setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify Him and during parts of the day that you may be well pleased.

So even Quran has split Salah into three sections. The closest verse in the Quran that could possibly be indicated for five prayers is the last example I used. But even this verse does not directly say five. In fact if you try to explain the verse like that, then tafaseer (explanation) of the verse could indicate more then five. When it says parts of the day, we know it as two times a day, but without the knowledge of when to pray as the verse indicates which comes from the hadith it could range form 1-100. Lets say for example the  parts of the day means 2 hours long. I could pray for two hours straight and it would still be parts of the day. And the same for when it says glorify him in the hours of the night. The only Salah that is separate is the morning.

Now we examine Hadith. It would be pointless to present Shia hadith on this subject because Ahlul Sunna wa Jamma would say we don’t except your hadith. So I will produce only Sunni hadith on if combining Salah at anytime of life is allowed. But before I do that I will explain why Allah(swt) has allowed us to do this. In fact that it is a blessing of his mercy to mankind.

It is for the convenience of the umma (people). Because people are often busy with their own affairs and have their own duties, like in countries where the work system is not structured for a Islamic system so Muslims are not able to offer their daily prayers according to time. Also some jobs require long hours of continuous, undisturbed  work. Therefore in order to avoid missing the second of the two prayers Allah(swt) has made it convenient for you to combine the Duhr with the Asr and Mughrib with the Isha.Also this way you can have prayed Friday prayer (Jammah) with the Asr prayer after in Jammah increasing your reward.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 10, Number 537-  Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet prayed seven Rakat together and eight Rakat together.

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1515-  Ibn ‘Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together, and the sunset and Isha’ prayers together without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey.

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1516- Ibn ‘Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together in Medina without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey. (Abu Zubair said: I asked Sa’id [one of the narrators] why he did that. He said: I asked Ibn ‘Abbas as you have asked me, and he replied that he [the Holy Prophet] wanted that no one among his Ummah should be put to [unnecessary] hardship.)

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1520-  Ibn ‘Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) combined the noon prayer with the afternoon prayer and the sunset prayer with the ‘Isha’ prayer in Medina without being in a state of danger or rainfall. And in the hadith transmitted by Waki’ (the words are):” I said to Ibn ‘Abbas: What prompted him to do that? He said: So that his (Prophet’s) Ummah should not be put to (unnecessary) hardship.” And in the hadith transmitted by Mu’awiya (the words are):” It was said to Ibn ‘Abbas: What did he intend thereby? He said he wanted that his Ummah should not be put to unnecessary hardship.”

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1523- ‘Abdullah b. Shaqiq reported: Ibn ‘Abbas one day addressed us in the afternoon (after the afternoon prayer) till the sun disappeared and the stars appeared, and the people began to say: Prayer, prayer. A person from Banu Tamim came there. He neither slackened nor turned away, but (continued crying): Prayer, prayer. Ibn ‘Abbas said: May you be deprived of your mother, do you teach me Sunnah? And then he said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) combining the noon and afternoon prayers and the sunset and ‘Isha’ prayers. ‘Abdullah b. Shaqiq said: Some doubt was created in my mind about it. So I came to Abu Huraira and asked him (about it) and he testified his assertion.

There are so many more but this sufficient evidence. Let alone there from the two greatest book that Sunni consider Sahih.

So after examining all the irrefutable evidence, combining Duhr and Asr prayers and Mughrib and Isha prayers, is in harmony with the Qur’an and the Sunnah of Prophet(saw). The fact that this Sunnah is not generally practiced by Ahlul Sunna wa jamma does not make it default in our lives. As the famous Sunni commentator of Sahih Muslim, Al-Nawawi Says- When a Sunnah (way of the Prophet (saw) )is confirmed authentic, it is not abandoned just because some, most or all people abandon it. 

28 Responses to “Is combining Salah haram or not?”

  1. Ali Hodroje Says:

    Salam to the true followers of the ahul bait.
    I want to thank you for posting this up, I was in a debate, and he brought up this topic,
    and without this page, I would have been embaraased so thanks to all who have shown this to us,
    may allah (sawt) bless you all

    Ali

  2. Omar Elfeky Says:

    Asslamu Alaikum to all my brothers.

    Some so called “Ahl-Suna wa Jama’a” frown upon combining. The so called “Shia” combine often. The prophet (pbuh) did combine (asr and dhur and maghrib and isha) and he also prayed them at distinct times (5 different times). HE did BOTH. So it is the Sunnah to pray on distinct times and the combine prayers.

    They key to being Muslim is not being so called “suni” or so called “shia”.

    We not follow Ahl-Bait we follow Muhammed, we don’t follow corrupt scholars or corrupt Muslims (even if everyone seems to do it wrong) we do it the right way.

    Don’t consider yourself anything other than Muslim, saying you are suni or shia is a fitnah and making divisions and causing hatred and causing many problems.

    Allah does not need you or me, we need him. So pray to him and him alone, and follow the way of Muhammed and let not stereotypes, tradition, or your own personal preference get in the way of following Muhammed (follow Muhammed don’t beleive everything your “sheikh” tells you.

    ALLAHU AKBAR.

    Jazak Allahu khair for posting the beautiful Quranic verses, and the hadiths!!

    MUSLIMS UNITE, in the Quran Allahu says “Prostrate with those who prostrate!”

  3. MoMahdi Says:

    Salaamu alaykum

    First off I want to congratulate you on acknowledging that combining Salah is halal, not haram. Second I agree with you on the fact that we need Allah(swt) more than anything in the world. Third I agree 100% that all Muslims unite. But now, we have a problem. First off, understand that Prophet Muhammad (saw) is Ahlul Bayt. He is the head leader.

    Quran Surah:33 Verse:33- And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the house, and to make you pure and spotless.

    Sahih Muslim: Book:031 Number:5955:
    A’isha reported that: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. ‘Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came ‘Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

    So when you say we follow Muhammad not Ahlul Bayt, you are wrong, because he is Ahlul Bayt. To follow the Sunna of the prophet means, to follow the way of the prophet, so even on that level you are wrong, because Ahlul bayt is the way off the prophet. Everything they did is because of his way, meaning they replicated him. And in fact that’s why he said in his speech I leave you two things behind, the book of Allah(swt) and my AHLUL BAYT, these two will never split. Sahih Muslim: Book:031 Number:5920.

    And if one tries to say that the wives are from the Ahlul Bayt then I suggest you read this hadith in Sahih Muslim were the prophet was asked that question and he said NO, because if you divorce them they go back to there family’s. Only his blood relatives are his Kin. Sahih Muslim: Book:031 Number:5923.

    Furthermore to show that only Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein (as) are Ahlul Bayt I want you to recall the event of Mubahala. Quran: Surah:3 Verse:61- If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: “Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of God on those who lie!”

    You can do research about this verse if you don’t know what it is. And to help you I will give you the Hadith in Muslim pertaining to this event. There you will see who is the family of the Prophet(saw)
    Sahih Muslim: Book:031 Number:5915

    Salaamu Alaykum.

  4. Nom de Guerre Says:

    Salaam ou alaykum brother Omar Elfeky,

    Brother we are just defending the way Shi’a pray. We are not making fitnah. If we were making fitnah, after defending our way of prayer we would that criticize or ridicule the way you pray. We are not here for that and very humbly agree that we do not need any division in the Ummah. Thank you for your comment, brother.

  5. Omar Elfeky Says:

    Wa alaikum alsalam,

    Brothers, Ahl-Albayt are all good people and they follow the Sunnah. They are better than us, and so are all of the sahaba. They are the best of the followers of Muhammed. But at the end they followed Muhammed and we should follow Muhammed. There is no verse in the Quran that says we should follow “ahl-albait”. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) is a great great example, but the best example is Muhammed and our religion is based ON MUHAMMED. He is the prophet not his wives or his children. Ali is not a direct descendant of Muhammed…he is related to him but so was many other people…it doesn’t mean anything to be related to Muhammed. His Uncle will be in hellfire for eternity and he loved Muhammed.

    I’m not saying “shia” are making divisions, anyone who claims to be anything another than “Muslim” is making a division.

    Most Shia Muslims do base their prayer on Muhammed pbuh. That is good I’m not criticizing that, Muhammed pbuh didn’t pray the same way every time. As long as anyone has evidence that Muhammed pbuh prayed that way, than it is fine. Sometimes I pray at a shia Masjid, it is all the same to me (as long as they don’t engage in any form of SHIRK/POLYTHIESM).

    For any of you who think it is ok to be “Suni” or “Shia” or anything other than muslim look at this verse in the Quran:
    030.032 Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!

    In arabic, the verse uses the term “Shia” of course Shia only means sect, I’m not trying to say that the Quran is talking about Shia Islam (As it exists today) because it didn’t exist back then.

    Walahi I love all Muslims, and we are brothers of each other. We need to focus on following Muhammed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And worshipping Allah, there are some Christians and Jews that (very very very very VERY FEW lol) that follow Allah in the right way. Some of them cover and do not eat pork and only beleive in ONE GOD and some Christians beleive that Jesus is not the son of God. So these are good people. I’m sure that you would not have anything ill to say about these people….so why would any Muslim feel anything ill towards any other muslim..and we are BROTHERS.

    I’m just trying to break down barriers, between Muslims. I wish Muslims would stop labelling each other and themselves….anything other than MUSLIM.

  6. Nom de Guerre Says:

    If you want to follow Muhammad (sawas) then follow what he says. He says to follow Ahlul-Bayt(pbuT). We are not making schism in religion any where. We are following the Sunnah of the Prophet(sawas). Whatever other people choose to do is between themselves and Allah(swt). To say that all the Sahaba are better than us, brother, I must respectfully disagree with that. I never killed anyone from Ahlul-Bayt(pbuT), so I can say I’m better than some of the so-called “Sahaba” for this reason alone. You can turn a blind eye to facts that occurred in your strive to be politically correct– that is your agenda, that is fine. However, Islam is about Truth and Justice. It would not serve justice to consider these “Sahaba” who were truly hypocrites and bad people as righteous and good men. The Truth is not fitnah. The Qur’an says that not all the Sahaba are good. Who are you to supersede this revelation brother? We are MUSLIM. Shi’a means followers. We follow, Ahlul-Bayt(pbuT). We do this because the PROPHET told us to do this. It’s not something Shi’a made up sitting in the Masjid. Habibi, if you want to see what SHIRK is read in “Saheeh” Bukhari how you will recognize Allah(swt) by his shin, astug’far’Allah! Giving a human reference to Allah(swt)?! I understand your message, and it’s important. But part of combining the Ummah and removing schism or what you refer to as “sects” can only be achieved through knowledge and education of the TRUE Sunnah of the Prophet. Salaam brother.

  7. MoMahdi Says:

    Sorry or the late response, family issue. Subhan’Allah how it was somehow unclear when I said Muhammad(saw) is Ahlul Bayt. I guess everything I wrote made no sense. That’s fine, I am done with this subject, even if you respond, there is no point on responding. My words fall on deaf ears. Obviously clear Quranic verses are not good enough, and I guess Sahih Muslim for you is no longer Sahih?

    Then you write that Ali is not a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad(saw). WOW so let’s see, I guess Fatima, Hassan and Hussein are not as well, right? The fact of the matter is, Ali(as) was chosen to marry Fatima(as) for the simple fact that Ali was more than a mere DISTANT or CLOSE relative. I suggest you do your research on the matter by reading Najhul Balagha, and see who Ali(as) was to the prophet. Find out why Abu Bakr, Omar were rejected when they asked for her hand. Or even yet, read the first article ever posted on shiacrescent, labeled: “Justification of Imam Ali(as).

    You then post a verse from the Quran that says do not split your religion. You would have made your point if you would have just presented the verse and said, that splitting Islam is haram. But no, you made sure that you incorporated the word, Shia to show sects. But to make it neutral you said: I know it’s not referring to today’s Shia because there were no Shia back then. But now I’m going to show YOU were the Quran says Shia, and that Shia is referring to Us, and show you who the verse is referring to.

    First off, do you even know what the word Shia means? The word means: “The Followers of” So when the Quran uses the word Shia in the Verse it’s saying: “From the people who split up their religion and were FOLLOWERS , every party rejoicing in what is with them. So who is this verse referring to and how do we know tafseer of it, simple, Surah 78 in the Quran, verses 1-4.
    Quran: Surah:78 Verse:1-4- Concerning what are they disputing? Concerning the Great News, About which they cannot agree. Verily, they shall soon (come to) know!
    Naba-il azim (the great news) here and in Quran 38:67, refers to the vicegerency of man to represent Allah on the earth in order to exercise authority on His behalf, i.e. imamah or wilayah.
    According to many commentators it may refer to the day of resurrection, or the prophethood of the Holy Prophet, or the Quran. Although all of them are great and fundamental yet discussion, opposition or disagreement among the human beings concerning their actuality is a regular exercise. So far as the angelical realm is concerned we find no trace of any such behaviour save at the time of the appointment of Adam (man) as the vicegerent (khalifah) of Allah. The angels expressed their disapproval, but yielded to reason when it was proved to them that they were inferior to Adam in knowledge and wisdom because of which Adam was appointed as the vicegerent of Allah. So it was the beginning of controversy regarding the vicegerency of Allah. In every age imamah or wilayah is the most bitterly disputed issue.
    Even those who believe in Allah, the revealed scriptures, the angels, the resurrection and the prophets of Allah refuse to accept the fact that there is always a divinely chosen representative of Allah on the earth who by his absolute submission to Allah (abdiyat) and total control over human shortcomings reaches the stage of fanafiallah (absolute absorption of divine attributes) and baqiya-billah (acting on behalf of Allah as His instrument)
    Hafiz Abu Nu-aym in Hilyatul Awliya says that the Holy Prophet told his companions: “Naba-il-azim (the great news) refers to the wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib.”
    Quran 5:67 for the wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib. Therefore wilayah of Imam Ali is the decisive test of man’s submission to Allah’s authority. Man shall not be able to avoid or escape from acceptance of Ali’s wilayah as verses 4 and 5 assert.
    In subsequent verses the process of creation demonstrates the evidence of divine plan and purpose which shall culminate in resurrection after which a new world will come into being. The process of developing matter from its lowest form to the highest form, which is human form, has to be carried out by the help of a pivotal entity to function as a medium between the finite and the infinite. Not only in the human society functioning in this world but also in the greater society which will come into being after the day of judgement the pivotal agency is indispensable. In fact the centre of gravitation of any collective existence has to be created before its formation. On this basis imamah or khilafat was bestowed on man and then the human race began to spread over the world and it shall continue to function till the human society reaches its final destination.
    “The day of resurrection and wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib are the two sides of one reality.”
    Ali is “the great news”. He is the ark of Nuh. In him and in every Imam in his progeny is confined all that which has been created. Khawja Muinuddin Chishti, a great saint of India, has said: “Those who sought protection through “Ya Sin” killed the imamun mabin”.
    So he clearly says that “imamum mabin” in verse 12 of Ya Sin refers to Imam Hussein and It refers to all the Imams of the Ahl ul Bayt.
    Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said: “Naba-il azim refers to Ali ibn abi Talib”.
    In the battle of Siffin a soldier came out from the army of Mu-awiyah and recited Ya Sin in front of Imam Ali. He asked him: “Do you know what is naba-il-azim ?” He did not know. Ali said: “I am the naba-il azim.” A similar event also took place in the battle of Jamal.
    Amr ibn As, an avowed enemy of Ali, once said: “Ali is the naba-il azim. He is the babullah (the door through which one enters into the realm of the realisation of Allah).”
    So when it says those who split their religion it is referring to the people that did not accept Imam Ali(as) after the prophet(saw). Allah(swt) knows all, so in this he made the people aware of what they were going to do, so when the day is made present to us we will all know the truth.
    If you have a problem with Imam Ali(as) being Naba-il azim, how funny it is that you can except a mere Sheep to be called Azim.
    Quran: Surah:37 Verse:107- “And We ransomed him with a Great sacrifice”. The word great here is Azim. I suggest you learn what this verse is referring to.

    Then you say that the Quran does not say to Follow Ahlul bayt, WRONG!!
    Quran: Surah:4 Verse:59- O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you….. this is better and very good in the end.
    “Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger).”
    The command to obey is infinite-total obedience in all material, religious and spiritual matters, therefore, as this verse clearly signifies, the ulil amr must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet are, and he who – administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom).
    Surah:2 Verse:30-39, and 124; and Surah:5 Verse:55 and 56 and 3 and 67 and these all with representation of the event at Ghadir Khum. A careful study of the above verses discloses that Ali, and after him, the remaining eleven Imams, in the progeny of the Holy Prophet, Ali and Fatimah, are the true successors of the Holy Prophet who have been referred to as ulil amr in this verse. So the Shias obey and follow the Holy Prophet and the twelve Imams.
    It is irrational and senseless to accept any ruler as ulil amr, otherwise men like Yazid bin Mu-awiya will have to be included in the category of ulil amr; and no sane person would say that Allah has enjoined to obey men like Yazid (prototypes of whom were and are many and in abundance since the departure of the Holy Prophet till today) just as one obeys Allah and the Holy Prophet.
    From the event of ashira (feast of the near relatives to carry out the divine command of “warn your tribe of near relatives”) Quran 26:214 to the day at Ghadir Khum Quran:5:55, the Holy Prophet repeatedly announced the successorship of Ali, therefore, the first step a true Muslim must take to obey the messenger of Allah is to obey and follow Ali ibn abi Talib. Also refer to the “Right Path” and “Peshawar Nights”, published by the Peermohammed Ebrahim Trust or Zahra Publications, because the issue of ulil amr and wali has been discussed in depth in these books with authentic references from the well-known books of tafsir and hadith written by the Muslim scholars.
    Now let’s see where the word Shia in the Quran is referring to Us.
    Quran: Surah:38 Verse:75- Verily of his FOLLOWERS was Ibrahim. (Wa ‘Inna Min Shīa`atihi La’ibrāhīma) As said in verse 83 those who follow the same creed are called shias, and this has become a term to distinguish those who follow Ali.
    The Holy Prophet said: “O Ali, you and your shia, on the day of resurrection, will be surrounded by light, honoured and successful.”

  8. Rebuttal to T.I.T.S Says:

    […] say that Allah(swt) has withdrew his mercy from us because we combine Salah.  I wrote an article about that, too. Go read it and get embarrassed.  Maybe you will learn […]

  9. mohammad Says:

    one has to see what did the prophet pbuh do in his practical life. he offered 5 times salat. we must follow him. combine salat during hajj is ok and its exception. and exception is not example at all. may Allah guide u brothers.

  10. MoMahdi Says:

    One has to wonder, did you even read the article!!!??? Where did it say in any of the hadith that, it was OK only during hajj??? Is Bukhari and Muslim wrong about the Prophet allowing them to be combined so that the ummah would not be put through unnecessary hardship. Are you like a Christian?? After you refute Christians with the bible, they come fourth and say I don’t even need the bible. It appears to be the same for you. Bukhari and Muslim are both Sahih according to Ahlul Sunna, but I guess it doesn’t matter to you, because you make your own ruling, you don’t need to follow nothing but yourself. You can do tafseer for Quran on your own without hadith, right?

    I find it funny how you just spoke opinion, (which is based of what father and mother thought you, not Islamic studies done by you), instead of producing proof to refute the article. You say may Allah(swt) guide us, trying to say we are doing haram. I suggest you pick up a book and do some reading before you open your mouth. May Allah(swt) guide you and everyone who is like you.

    Astagfar’Allah Alul Sunna believe they will see Allah(swt), wow so much for you being already guided.

  11. Omar Elfeky Says:

    MoMahdi- [26:214] You shall preach to the people who are closest to you. -This has nothing to do with Muslims following Ali (ra). The verses that you quote do not mention Ali at all. The verse is very simple it is saying that we should warn those who we are close to? It only applies to Ali in the general sense, that he is related to Muhammed so it was Muhammed’s duty to teach Ali about Islam as well as any other relative of Muhammed (pbuh). Those close to you don’t even have to be family, it can be a slave or a best friend. That verse applies to all Muslims not just Muhammed. All of us should make those who are close to us, close to Allah. None of the verses you state SINGLES OUT Ali.

    Quran: Surah:4 Verse:59- O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you….. this is better and very good in the end.
    “Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger).”—-Again this does not have anything to Ali in particular. Ali, was the Amir Al Mu’amineen so him like any other Muslim who is in charge of you, you must obey him. There are many ahadith stating if you have a Muslim even if he is an oppresor, you must obey him. As long as that Muslim who is in charge does not make you do something that is kufr.

    In fact, Surah 4 and verse 59 (which you quote) would mean that you would have to obey Omar and Abu bakr (and anyone else whom you don’t like who was given authority over you who is a Muslim). Regardless, I know shia don’t like Omar or Abu Bakr, even though there are countless accounts of Muhammed pbuh of being with them. However, this is not the big deal. Beleif in Muhammed is essential to

    Ali gave up the Caliphate to Muawiya hence you can’t accuse Mu’awiya of being a kafir, because Ali would give it up to a non-Muslim. Don’t make the mistake of many uneducated people by assuming that anyone who has “Sunni affiliations” to be supportive of the Ummayids or Abassids.

    I want to bring the Muslims together. If you really thought being a good Muslim was following Ali, you wouldn’t call yourself shia you would just call yourself Muslim (following Ali would be implied). But you persist in having your own group. I have met many great “shia” people who I love. You group all of the Ahl Al Suna wa Jama’a as one group.

    The whole basis of Shia sect seems to be based on things which happened after Muhammed pbuh died.

    Quoting you
    “Quran: Surah:38 Verse:75- Verily of his FOLLOWERS was Ibrahim. (Wa ‘Inna Min Shīa`atihi La’ibrāhīma) As said in verse 83 those who follow the same creed are called shias, and this has become a term to distinguish those who follow Ali.” Shia means sect, you can be a sect of any one or anything. Being the sect of anyone or anything other than Islam is dangerous.

    Ahl-bayet= Family/people of the House, so if it is refering to people of the house of Muhammed, it is not refering to Muhammed. It is referring to the people of Muhammed’s house. Ahl Ibrahim, or Ahl Muhammed means the family of Ibrahim/Muhammed it does not mean Ibrahim or Muhammed. So if Ahl-albayet means Family of Muhammed, it certainly does not mean Muhammed is a family member of Muhammed, because Muhammed is Muhammed, he isn’t just a family member of Muhammed. When a person refers to the family of Muhammed, it isn’t inclusive of Muhammed directly. From an indirect perspective it can include Muhammed because the family of Muhammed follow Muhammed. Anyway, regardless, Ahl Al-bayet dedicated their lives to following Muhammed. If you claim to follow them, then you would dedicate your life to Muhammed pbuh as well. If you truely take Ali (ra) as an example you would avoid making divisions in the Muslims as Ali has done.

    By restricting your sources of hadith to Ahl Albayet, than you would be missing out on many ahadith. Muhammed is not a follower of Ali, Ali was a follower of Muhammed you should realise that.

    I hate it when “Sunni” Muslims don’t do something that Muhammed did (i.e. wear a black turbine) because “Shia” Muslims do that often. Just to be different. Some “Shia” are doing that too they are just trying to be different from the mainstream.

    Just a note: I don’t think all the sahaba were good. Afterall, after Muhammed pbuh died some sahaba stop paying zakah which is kufr. But there are 10 Sahaba whom Muhammed pbuh has guaranteed Jannah (paradise) to. So, those 10 sahaba I can’t ever say they have become kafirs.

    I guess what I’m saying, is that anyone who isn’t Muhammed (pbuh). Is not the messenger of God. Hence, it doesn’t matter who you like more of the Sahaba, or whether they are related to Muhammed or not. It is all a matter or preference and politics.

    As Muslims our goal is to make Allah’s word the highest.

    On a side note, may I have your addy if you have msn, there is something in particular that I want to talk to you about 😛

    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmat Allahi Ta3ala Wa barakatoho.

  12. Please Read Says:

    Ya Ali Madad,

    Sunnis follow Abu Bakr and Umar. You saw we don’t like them, and that is definitley true without doubt. When Abu Bakr and Umar and other companions headed to Fatimah’s (The Radiant) house to obtain homage from Ali and his supporters who had gathered there, Umar threatened to set the house on fire unless they came out and swore allegiance with Abu Bakr. Then Umar set the house on fire and pushed the burnt door on Fatima. Some sources say upon seeing them, Ali came out with his sword drawn but was put in chains by Umar and their companions.

    So in my belief, how could anyone want to follow someone that burns ppls houses down, and pushing a burning door on an innoccent lady like Fatimah (The Radiant), Muhammeds daughter, Wife of Hazrar Ali, the one that protected Muhammed all through out? Abu Bakr and Umar will burn in fire for that if you ask me. How can Sunnis deny these facts so clearly seen?

    Sunnis say if Ali was the rightfull successor, then he woulda have caused war to fight for His cause. Is there something wrong with these ppl (Sunnis)? Who would want to cause war, Allah is about Peace, Love and Unity just as Muhammed (pbuh) was. Hazrat Ali did everything He could to prevent a war, because He is so kind and intelligent.

    This is why today Sunnis are hard-headed and try to play the role of the Almighty Allah and tell Shias they are Non-Muslims. Who are you to tell us?

    (Please note the above stated are in my belief and history facts stated)

  13. MoMahdi Says:

    I wish I had seen this comment by “Omar Elfeky” sooner, w’Allah I have not been to the site as much as i want to be since I have work. It’s hard so people please bear with me. As for Omar, brother you are a foolish person and a very disrespectful person at that. You truly deaf blind and dumb and a waste of my time and I will no longer bother with you or any foolish or disrespectful people in the correct manner.

    It truly is sad and it’s not worth the effort to give a excellent and logical and true response. When I have someone leaving comments like this:
    ” I hate it when “Sunni” Muslims don’t do something that Muhammed did (i.e. wear a black turbine) because “Shia” Muslims do that often. Just to be different. Some “Shia” are doing that too they are just trying to be different from the mainstream”.

    Becasue the prophet wore a white one right? Listen to who foolish and dumb that sounds. You are foolish child and you need to go study the true history of Islam and don’t hide behind non logic and feel good stories because that what you were brought up to believe. In fact that is the only reason why you are Sunni. That’s what Mama and baba thought you so it is your way as well.

    Everything you tried rebutting you backed up with no hadith or sources, all you did was give your version or maybe a Shiekhs or even the Quran you use, (commentary). I am sorry to say that you truly have no knowledge of the subject neither do understand Quran. I produce Sunni Authentic hadith and you give me your translation, as if your fit to give such a analysis.

    You repeat the verses in English and you think you understand the verse lol. Are you serious?? You have no Idea what words refer to in Arabic when it comes to Quran yet you have given judgment? One word can mean many meanings that’s why there is context. That’s why Sunnis and Christians are the same they give verses without context to prove a point.

    As for you saying that Muhammad is not part of Ahul bayt wow please go read and learn brother I suggest it very much. Just like a typical Sunni, you bring me a verse and you have no proof for it and you translate it the way you want. You can never bring me the context of the verse, never!!! You can’t tell me why it was revealed when or where. Here is your proof, and lets see your silly comment now. You still can’t except Muhammad of being part of the Holy Ahlul Bayt. He is the HEAD OF THE FAMILY WOW. You used Ibrahim(as) as a example, you said-

    ” Ahl Ibrahim, or Ahl Muhammed means the family of Ibrahim/Muhammed it does not mean Ibrahim or Muhammed. So if Ahl-albayet means Family of Muhammed, it certainly does not mean Muhammed is a family member of Muhammed, because Muhammed is Muhammed, he isn’t just a family member of Muhammed. When a person refers to the family of Muhammed, it isn’t inclusive of Muhammed directly”.

    lol wow did that back fire on you.

    Quran Surah:11 Verse:69-76- completely destroys you. Here it refers to Ibrahim, his wife, and sons as Ahlul bayt. So here Ibrahim is referred to as Ahlul Bayt just as Muhammad is referred to in 33:33 and here is your proof from your Sahih Muslim narrated Aisha-Ch:9 Book:31 Hadith:5955. Also there are many more like Sahih Tirmidhi, ibn Jafar al-Tabari andmany more.

    As for the word shia meaning sect wow, you truly don’t know arabic. You just read the Quran in english and you read it for face value. You are right we are followers of Ali and Ali(as) is a follower of the true Sunna of Muhammad, that’s we are called followers of Ali becasue we uphold the true way of Muhammad. Even in your Sunni sect you have sects, so what the heck are you talking about. And please don’t come forth and say no you don’t its just difference of school of thought. If that’s the case then, that’s excatly why we call our selfs Shia to preserve our school of thought.

    As for 4:59 once again your just giving me your english translation and off of that you are giving me your answer. You say

    “Again this does not have anything to Ali in particular. Ali, was the Amir Al Mu’amineen so him like any other Muslim who is in charge of you, you must obey him. There are many ahadith stating if you have a Muslim even if he is an oppresor, you must obey him. As long as that Muslim who is in charge does not make you do something that is kufr”.

    Are you kidding me, please don’t try refuting something you don’t understand, the word in VERSE IN ARABIC IS ” Yā ‘Ayyuhā Al-Ladhīna ‘Āmanū ‘Aţī`ū Allāha Wa ‘Aţī`ū Ar-Rasūla Wa ‘Ūlī Al-‘Amri Minkum.

    Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger.

    ONCE AGAIN ” the” ULIL AMIR” must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet is, and he who – administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom). Allah Chooses not your people who stole the Kalifa. Remember the Ulil Amir is a secession passed down to that person by the propet(sawaw) himself.

    As for 26:214, I swear to God I give up on you. Can you please tell me when this verse was revealed and why? You don’t even know. You think the Quran just came down on shot? Authentic Hadith have proven what this verse is referring to but, you say no. lol omg wow I guess your the new master of Quran and hadith. w’Allah this is a waste of my time. Once again all Sunni’s do is take a verse out of context and give verses translations however they see fit. And as of new, your a wonder, you read a English version (translation) and give it face value, what a joke.

    Lmao excuses for that one, but omg please go to a scholar and produce Athethic hadith that say Imam Ali(as) gave up the Kalfia to Mayawia. OMG don’t ever repeat that, that was just silly and I’m sorry, stupid. What was the battle of Siffin omg loool. Imam Ali in Najahal Balagha defends himself and tells Mayawia that he has to except him as the Khalifa. If Imam Ali(as) was the Khalifa and Mayawia went to war with him then he is a Kafia.

    Did you really post what you posted I’m still in shock wow. I guess Aisha never went to war against Imam Ali(as) in the battle of Jamal (camel). Guess what Imam Ali(as) was the Khalifa at the time. Wow, please get your facts straight before you come and open your mouth and sound foolish. You would be laughed of the table.

    Peace be Upon those who deserve it.

  14. Sayed Says:

    Another very welll written article on this issues between the Shia and Sunna is at:

    http://www.al-shia.org/html/eng/books/beliefs/islamic-question-answer/097D751.HTM

    Its totally legit to combine prayers based on Sihah e Sitta, forget Shia sources.

    May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon Muhammad and his noble family (pbut).

  15. Imane Says:

    Salamalaykoum

    I was doing some research on combining prayers. I have reverted to Islam. It is just pathetic to read the discussion between so called Shia and Sunnis. I didn’t like the tone used by MoMahdi. It is full of hatred for the brother who was just trying to call everybody Muslims. The way he exposed his ideas (Momahdi), doesn’t make me wanting to research his proofs. In my opinion, very very bad dawah!

  16. MoMahdi Says:

    As Norman Finkelstein would say “The truth is often a bitter pill to swallow”. If my tone would stop you from seeking TRUTH then your faith is as as weak of that as person who is questioning his or her existence. That’s is to bad. I suggest you reread all the comments before you open your mouth that has sadly made you look bad. I know it’s a lot to read but if your ead ALL the comments you see how the debate was shifted to a different topic and how the insult came towards Shia’s before I exposed the so call sunni. That’s how I know you really didn’t even read the comments. Please reread and don’t look foolish. Or better yet instead of reading the comments, why aren’t you reading the facts. For someone who is trying to do RESEARCH FOR TRUTH, I don’t think you come to facts and SKIP THEM and instead read comments that usually come from opinion and people causing dis-court. I believe you you are a liar and sad sad person. And if you are not a liar then may Allah(swt) forgive me but you surly don’t read correctly. One can read the Quran for hundreds of years and not know what they are reading. For me to have influenced you from finding TRUTH. Your faith is of no use to anyone or even yourself. you said “the way he EXPOSED his ideas”. Are you normal? I exposed my ideas?? It is a ISLAMIC universal idea proven from your sunni books. And if your if you read ALL THE COMMENTS everything I wrote was proven through Quran or sunni hadith. Ohhh let me guess you don’t call yourself sunni your a Muslim right?? Fine I have a question who do you accept as the fist Khalifa?? Lets see you answer this.

  17. Imane Says:

    What I don’t like about you is not what you are saying about Islam, is how you are saying it. You are rude and judgmental. I didn’t even debated anything with you and you have already insulted me. For your information, I had read all the comments before I left a reply.
    When I said I wouldn’t seek the truth from you, does not mean I would not seek the truth. The prophet peace be upon him had the best way to spread Islam and we could all use some of his ways.
    Humble yourself and speak carefully:
    24. See you not how Allah sets forth a parable? – A goodly word as a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the sky (i.e. very high).
    25 Giving its fruit at all times, by the Leave of its Lord and Allah sets forth parables for mankind in order that they may remember.
    26 And the parable of an evil word is that of an evil tree uprooted from the surface of earth having no stability.
    27 Allah will keep firm those who believe, with the word that stands firm in this world (i.e. they will keep on worshipping Allah Alone and none else), and in the Hereafter. And Allah will cause to go astray those who are Zalimoon (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), and Allah does what He wills.
    Surah Ibrahim

    So really, when Allah says that Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian but he was a Muslim, why should I call myself sunni or shia instead of just calling myself a Muslim? As far as your question regarding the first Khalifa, it was Adam allayhi salam. :)) And personnally, I have enough to learn about the prophet himself and the miraculous Quran than dwell on historic facts after the venue of Islam. Allah is the only judge and he will judge perfectly.
    All the best to you and may Allah soften your heart. Amin

  18. MoMahdi Says:

    Fine you don’t like me fair enough. Perhaps my anger is addressed to all the people that come to the site with no proof or logical debate but to ridicule us and call us kafars and rafadihs. Perhaps my anger has transferred over, it was not intended for you. I apologize, not for your liking or to get you to like me, I could care less about that with all due respect. But I apologize for the simple fact of bettering myself. But perhaps if you really read all the comments carefully you could see behind the lines of comments that were posted. It was suppose to be a rebuttal, but it was unfortunate that rude comments had to be thrown in. These are all to common when debating with sunni’s.

    But I found it funny you said “i don’t have time to dwell on HISTORIC facts after the venue of Islam but only to learn about the about the prophet himself and the miraculous Quran. Wonderful, simply wonderful. Hey a couple of questions. Was it a mere HISTORICAL fact after the establishment of Islam when the Prophet Muhammad(sawas) said” If I am your master than Ali your master” during Khadeer Khum or was it during the establishing of Islam and told and revealed by Allah(swt) in the Quran Surah:5 verse:67? Or did you not read that the Allah(swt) says in the QURAN says that only Allah(swt), the Prophet and Imam Ali are your masters. Surah:5 verse:55? Go read the hadith on this verse (Zamakhshari ‘al-Tafseer al-Kashshaf’, al-Ma’ida chapter, verse no. 55). In the Sunna of the prophet and his life did you not read that he has said” ya Ali you and your SHIA (followers) will be in heaven? Or when he said I leave behind two weighty things the Quran and my Ahlul bayt. (Sahih Muslim: Book 031, Number 5923)

    Quran Surah:37 verse:83 “Wa ‘Inna Min Shīa`atihi La’ibrāhīma” those who follow the same creed are called shias, and this has become a term to distinguish those who follow Ali because he has kept the true sunna of the prophet. The Holy Prophet said: “O Ali, you and your shia, on the day of resurrection, will be surrounded by light, honoured and successful.” So yes Ibrahim(as) was a Muslim but he was also refereed to in the QURAN as the SHIA of Nuh(as). We are Shia because we are the Shia(followers) of Imam Ali(as) who has upholded the true sunna of the prophet(sawas). That is why we distinguish ourselves as shia because we have to show the true path of Allah(swt). Our school of thought. The sunnis have many sects, I us sect because I find it funny when the sunni’s refer to shia they say it is a sect, but when they refer to themselves the say it is a school of thought, not a sect. Hannifia Shafia, hambali, maliki, then you have your salafia, wahabi, some sufis etc.

    Quran: Surah:4 Verse:59 “Yā ‘Ayyuhā Al-Ladhīna ‘Āmanū ‘Aţī`ū Allāha Wa ‘Aţī`ū Ar-Rasūla Wa ‘Ūlī Al-‘Amri Minkum” (O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you….. this is better and very good in the end). “Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger).” this verse clearly signifies, the ulil amr must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet are, and he who – administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom). The ulil amr must come in succession appointed by the Prophet(sawas) which ultimately comes from Allah(swt). The proof lies in your statement about Adam(as).

    You yourself said that the first Khalifa was Adam(as) 🙂 Yes Adam(as) was the first Khalifa wonderful, excellent answer. So then you must in all respect what Allah(swt) says in the QURAN. Lets examine what QURAN says about Adam(as) being appointed Khalifa. Not only that, but when Allah(swt) says khalifa or chosen leader in form of Prophet or Imam.
    Surah:2 verse:30 “Innī Jā`ilun Fī Al-‘Arđi Khalīfatan” (verily I am going to place a Khalifa on earth).
    Surah:38 verse:26 “Yā Dāwūdu ‘Innā Ja`alnāka Khalīfatan Fī Al-‘Arđi” (Oh Dawood, verily we have placed you as a khalifa on earth.
    Surah:2 verse:124 “‘Innī Jā`iluka Lilnnāsi ‘Imāmāan” (I am going to make you a Imam of mankind).
    So in all three verses what do you see? Allah(swt) has appointed all Khalifa’s not man. Therefore the successor of the prophet must be a revelation from Allah(swt). From the first Khalifa Adam(as) Allah(swt) has chosen the khalifa and appointed his representative on earth. Any time the word Khalifa appears in Quran “Inni jahlu” (I appoint or make) comes before it.

    Or perhaps when the Prophet Muhammad(sawas) said “Fatimah is a part of me, whoever loves her loves me and whoever angers her angers me. Lets not mention who denied her her right and angered her.

    Are all these just mere history moments that passed and not much effort should be taken when discussing them, or are they in Quran and the sayings of the prophet? If you follow Quran and the life of the prophet than why aren’t these things you take to be serious points and dogma of Allah(swt). If the prophet told you something to do and he advised you and everyone else to do it, would you always? I’m sure you would. What if the rest of the people stopped doing it and ridiculed you for it and separated themselves from you. What if you were shunned out, and your way of practice was said to be wrong. Would you stop the practice and not teach anyone the truth or would it be necessary for you to establish the true way of the prophet(sawas)?

    On a side note, this article is very informative and if you really were trying to learn on the subject this will help you tremendously. It’s irrefutable and the truth in Islam.

    Peace be upon those who deserve it.

  19. Imane Says:

    Why is there a need for Muhammad (saws) to have a successor?
    Isn’t he the last prophet and messenger? Why should we seek further?
    What is making fitnah between muslims these days is much more based on culture than beliefs. It is true that shias are not being recognized the way they should and it is wrong. Some people have questions like; Where are the 12 imams? Are they dead or mysteriously disappeared? To say they are not dead is putting them equal to Issa peace be upon him.
    I think that we should take the wisdom from whenever it comes from. I was not present a the time all this history happened but those who committed those crimes against Ali, Hussein and Hassan will certainly pay for their sins. But at the same time, why should I reject what the others sahabas brought? There is 2 sides to the history . I come from a religion full of mysteries and hidden facts, I love Islam because of the Quran, the Quran is the proof and it is sufficient. Regarding the ayahs you quoted, I see where you come from and I don’t have a problem with your explanation. But why going as far as 12 imams? Is there such a proof of that in the Quran? I believe there was a reason for Allah not to grant heirs to our beloved prophet. My understanding of that is that imama should be given to the most pious and is not related to blood. In my opinion, everything that happened after the death of the prophet (peace be upon him) was the work of Shaytan. Murders, treachery, pride, love of power. Let us believe that Allah will judge these crimes and let’s focus on practicing submission to Allah in the 5 pilliars of Islam. I love Ali (my son is named Muhammad Ali) but he was not a prophet. I gave up my belief of Issa as a God to a prophet. It does not make sense to me to put worship in any other people after prophet Muhammad. That Ali or Abu Bakr should have been his successor? I leave it up to Allah.

  20. Bilal Khan Says:

    Dear all,
    I used to condemn shia for joining prayers until i read the above ahadith. And I wondered why everyone is against it.. anyway i came to the conclusion that although it is permissible to join prayers without any reason what-so-ever, one should not make it a routine. You would ask why? You see if we want to truly follow the Prophet (sas) and ignore the scholars opinions, then we should follow it completely and not selectively. How often would the Prophet (sas) join prayers and how often would he offer it separately? Despite the fact that I can’t say it’s wrong if someone ALWAYS combines prayer, it will not be doing justice to sunnah. The sunnah is that most often, infact as far as I know (and i don’t know a whole lot), the prophet (sas) combined prayers only a few times in his life to just demonstrate the permissible but as a general principle he would not combine them. I know we are easy going ppl and we have stopped striving for the best, but if we truly want to adhere to sunnah (forget shia sunni, as I know of no companion to be either…), then we would try to do that which Prophet (sas) would want us to do and what he most often did. Ofcourse only Allah (swt) knows best and only He knows whats in everyone’s heart so as long as no one is leaving prayers, guide them to improve and not fall. Those who don’t pray are the true loosers. Tell those who always pray together to start praying at separate times, tell those who pray separately, to start praying in early times (afzal waqt), and tell those who pray at home to pray with other muslims, and ……. help your muslim brother improve and give him/her the motivation to improve and better him/her self as a muslim. We are told that the only example for us is the Prophet (sas). That is it. Infact come to think of it, muslims today (whichever sect they may belong to) are unanimously only agreed on the Prophet (sas). Let that be the source to unite everyone, as it should be.

  21. MoMahdi Says:

    I don’t know if this is what you were thought, or this maybe what you have heard, but there is alot of stuff you got wrong. You said why is there need for a successor? Why should we seek further? Why the 12 Imams? Are THEY DEAD or alive? To say they are not dead is to put them on the level of prophet Isa (as). Is there such proof in Quran? Imam should be given to most pious and not blood?

    Firstly the succession of the prophet isn’t appointed by man nor did the prophet choose him because he was his blood relative. It’s not that we go further to follow someone else it’s we follow tht appointed person for the MAINTAINING of islam. Allah(swt) chose Imam Ali as the khalifa after the prophet. Revealed in Quran for the prophet to do just that. From the time of Adam(as) to the end of time a representative of Allah(swt) must be present to govern over his creation. They are the mediators of man and the link to Allah(swt). Allah(swt has uses his representatives who HE chooses to reach us and we are allowed to use them to get back to him. There justice is perfect and just because they represent the perfect..Allah(swt).

    Quran Surah:5 verse:67- Yā ‘Ayyuhā Ar-Rasūlu Balligh Mā ‘Unzila ‘Ilayka Min Rabbika Wa ‘In Lam Taf`al Famā Ballaghta Risālatahu Wa Allāhu Ya`şimuka Mina An-Nāsi ‘Inna Allāha Lā Yahdī Al-Qawma Al-Kāfirīna
    (O Apostle! proclaim The (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy LORD. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed his mission and GOD will defend thee from mean mischief for GOD guided not those who reject faith).

    ALLAH(SWT) is telling the prophet to deliver the last part of his message or the message that he ALREADY delivered would have been for nothing because remember Allah(swt) tells the Prophet to say what he is telling him to reveal, he Only speaks Allah’s(swt) words. Quran Surah:53 verse:3-4- “Wa Mā Yanţiqu `Ani Al-Hawá ‘In Huwa ‘Illā Waĥyun Yūĥá”( Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,) So this means it was at the end of his life when the verse came down and that the message of Islam was already sent and there was one more thing that he needed to say and the importance of it was so severe that if not said, the MESSAGE that he had delivered to the people would not even matter. Let’s Examine something for a minute Abrahim’s(AS) sons where the khalifa after him, Musa(AS) left his brother after him Haroon (AS) Yaya (AS) was sent to preach and give word that ISA(AS) was coming his cousin not counting the Family of Imran Quran SURAH:3, Dawood(AS) and his son after him Sulaiman(AS). You mean to tell me that the Prophet was never instructed to reveal his successor and the more obvious didn’t choose his family like all the Prophets before him who Allah(swt) revealed would succeed and choose in the Quran…. that would make no sense. Why would ALLAH (SWT) leave his people guessing and in conflict with each other when in the past every Prophet named there successor. And Prophets never did anything on their own without Allah(swt) telling them to do it.

    Ibn abi Hatim quotes Abu Sa-id Khudri and Antara; Ibn Marduwayh quotes Abdullah bin Masud and Abu Sa-id Khudri; Ibn Asakir quotes Abu Said Khudri; Abu Bakr Shirazi, Muhammad bin Talha Qarshi and Sayyid Ali al Hamdani quote Abdullah bin Abbas; Nizamuddin Nayshapuri quotes Abdullah bin Abbas, Abu Sa-id Khudri and Bara bin Azib, to say that this verse was revealed about the wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib; and Sabbagh Maliki in Fusul al Muhimma; Badruddin Ayni in Umdatul Qari, Muhaddith Shirazi in Kitab al Arba-in; Shahabuddin Ahmad in Tawdih al Dala-il; and Mu-tamad Khan Badakhshani in Miftah al Nijat also confirm it.

    Hafiz Abu Bakr bin Marduwayh in Manaqib quotes Abdullah bin Masud that during the life time of the Holy Prophet they used to recite this verse with Inna Aliyyan Mawla al mu-minin (Ali is the master of the faithful).

    The shortest narration of the event of Ghadir is given below:

    While returning from his last hajj, in 10 Hijra, the Holy Prophet, along with the huge caravan of nearly one hundred thousand Muslims, made a halt at Ghadir Khum, a midway stop between Makka and Madina.

    He had received the following verse from Allah:

    O Our Messenger! Deliver what has been sent down unto you from your Lord; and if you do not, then you have not delivered His Message; and surely Allah will protect you from men.”

    (Surah:5 verse:67)

    The Holy Prophet mounted a tall pulpit and delivered a long sermon, recounting his services towards the fulfilment of his mission as the messenger of Allah. He asked the audience whether he had conveyed to them the commands of Allah, enumerating them one after another.

    The huge gathering, in one voice, said “yes”. “Do I wield authority over your souls more than you do?” He asked.

    “Certainly it is so, O Messenger of Allah” . They replied.

    Why did the prophet ask such a question? Because he was making aware to the people that the context of the speech authority over all. So where does the prophet get this right from, Quran: Surah:33 verse:6 “An-Nabīyu ‘Awlá Bil-Mu’uminīna Min ‘Anfusihim ” (The prophet has a greater right over the believers than they do over themselves).

    Then he asked Ali to come up. He held him in both his hands, raised him high, so much that the whole assembly of men and women saw him clearly.

    He again addressed them:

    “O men and women! Allah is my Mawla (Lord-Master). I am the mawla of the faithfuls. I have a clear authority over their souls, And of whomsoever I am the mawla (this) Ali is his mawla. O Allah! Love him who loves Ali, hate him who hates Ali.”

    Then it is reported right after that Omar Ibnal Khthab tells Imam Ali(as) “congratulations oh Abal Hassan, you have become my master and the master of every momeein and momeenat “. This is the same place he gave the the speech about hadith Thaqalayn( Ileave for you two weighty things, the Quran and my Ahlul bayt). (First Intellectual Muslim Thinker; by:Muhammad Abdul Rauf, Ph.D ch:6 pg:50, Shawahid al-Tanzil’, vol. 1, p. 190, Wahidi in ‘Asbab al-Nozool’ p.135) (Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5920).

    At the end of this declaration the following verse was revealed:” Al-Yawma ‘Akmaltu Lakum Dīnakum Wa ‘Atmamtu `Alaykum Ni`matī Wa Rađītu Lakumu Al-‘Islāma Dīnāan” (This day I have perfected your religion for you, COMPLETED MY FAVOR UPON YOU, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion). This was the final verse to ever come down. SO verse:67 It also implies that without declaration of the successorship of the divinely chosen successor the din would have remained incomplete and defective. So after the declaration of the wilayah or imamah of Ali ibn abi Talib, at Ghadir Khum, verse 3 of this surah was revealed.

    You then stat why the 12 Imams? Is there proof in Quran? Are they dead or did they mysteriously disappear? And if you say that they mysteriously disappeared then your putting them on the level of Prophet Isa(as). You also said “My understanding of that is that imama should be given to the most pious and is not related to blood”. Okay, alot of issues here lets tackle each one, one by one. Firstly why the 12 Imams. Well because the prophet said after him there will be 12 SUCCESSORS and all from Quraish.

    Sahih Bukhari: Volume:9, Book:89, Hadith Number:329.
    Narated By Jabir bin Samura : I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, “All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish.”

    Sahih Muslim: Book:20 hadith 4477, 4478,4480,4481,4482,4483 Chapter 1 Narrated Jabir bin Samura: “I heard Muhammad saying, “The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having TWELVE CALIPHS for you, all of them will be from Quraysh”.

    Sunan Abu Dawood: Book:31 hadith:4266,4267,4268 “The Prophet said: “This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh”.

    Sunan al-Tirmidhi (Arabic) Chapter of Fitan, 2:45 (India) and 4:501 Tradition # 2225 (Egypt) Hadith #2149 (numbering of al-‘Alamiyyah) The Prophet said: “There will be after me twelve Amir (Prince/Ruler), all of them from Quraysh”.

    Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 1, pg 398- Masrooq relates that someone asked Abdullah Ibn Masood, “O Abaa Abd al-Rahmaan, did you ask the Messenger of Allah how many caliphs will rule this nation?”. Abdullah Ibn Masood replied, “Yes, we did ask the Messenger of Allah and he replied, “Twelve, like the number of chiefs (nuqabaa) of Bani Israel”

    Even Iban Taymiah says “And these are the same, regarding whom the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has given the glad tidings in the tradition of Jabir ibn Samurah and stated their number; indeed this is with regard to the Imams and the Hour will not come till they last.”

    Therefore in conclusion with these hadith which come from the highest sunni books, the prophet has said that 12 successors will come after me and they will not perish until the hour has come meaning judgment day. So then if the Imam is dead how can this hadith make sense. It wouldn’t. I’ll come back to this in a sec, but I don’t know where you got your facts form but no one ever said that the 12 Imam’s never died. How would that be possible? If all of them are alive then there would not be need for succession. Imam Ali(as) was the first and Imam Al- Mahdi is the last(12). All 11 previous Imams Passed away, but Imam Al-Mahdi is the only one still alive. He will come back when the dajail(anti christ) is released into the world. He and Prophet Isa(as) will both come back. That’s a universal Islamic believe. Prophet Isa(as) will testify that Imam Al-Mahdi is who he is and Imam Ali_Mahdi will testify who Prophets Isa(as) is and his real status as a prophet to the one who took him as GOD. It doesn’t matter that the Imam isn’t a Prophet for him to be alive. For example the story of Musa(as) and the Khoder in the Quran. The Khoder(as) was more knowledgeable then Musa(as) but he was not a prophet. And to top it of he NEVER DIED, he is still alive and that is a universal Islamic truth. Prophet Idris(as) is still alive and never died. This one miracle isn’t confined to prophet Isa(as) or a prophet even. It is for WHOEVER Allah(swt) chooses and he chooses only wisely and the makes the best of choices. In fact to show the level of status of Imam, tell me this, why is Porphet Isa(as) going to pray behind Imam Al-Mahdi at Makkah in Jammah? When they both come out they are going to offer prayer. Prophet Isa(as) will tell the Imam(as) you are the Imam of the time I will pray behind you. Prophet Isa(as) wont even try to pray as the Imam even though he is the prophet. But back to the first thing, if Imam Al-Mahdi is dead or not BORN YET as some sunnis say then the above hadith are wrong. Because the hadith indicate that Islam will rule until the hour comes and until that hour comes it will rule and have a appointed successor from the 12. Therefore the appointed successor must always be present and it will last until judgment day. If all 12 are dead then that hour should have come, but it didn’t.

    Now secondly Imam isn’t something chosen according to being pious it would be who is the most knowledgeable accorrding to Ahlul sunnah, which I don’t see a problem with. That makes sense to me, so the whole notion of Imam being chosen because there blood is not true. But even Ahlul sunni don’t comply with what they believe, why? Who was more knowledgeable then Imam Ali after the prophet?
    Didn’t the Prophet(sawas) say “I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate one who seeks the knowledge must pass threw the gate”. Who was more knowledgeable than Imam Ali(as) Abu bakr? Omar? really? They alone were unjust in there life times this verse woud make them unworthy of being the Khalifas.

    Imam isn’t something made up by man or a title given by man it is in Quran. Prophet Ibrahim(as) reached the level of Imama. I’ll explain.
    Quran Surah:2 Verse:124- “Wa ‘Idh Abtalá ‘Ibrāhīma Rabbuhu Bikalimātin Fa’atammahunna Qāla ‘Innī Jā`iluka Lilnnāsi ‘Imāmāan Qāla Wa Min Dhurrīyatī Qāla Lā Yanālu `Ahdī Až-Žālimīna” (And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an IMAM of men. Ibrahim said: And of my OFFSPRING? My covenant does not include the UNJUST, said He). So Ibrahim(as) was an Imam also. He reached this level after this trial. So who is his offspring? Muhammad and his family. The word used in Quran is Imam. Why is the word so important that it’s needs to be used? According to some Scholars the word Imam means teacher or instructor. But now I ask you isn’t the Prophet a teacher and a instructor already? When a Prophet reveals Allah’s(swt) message doesn’t he have to teach the meaning of it and show and lead by example? Of course he is, so then why is the word so important that Allah(swt) used Imam? Ibrahim(as) was first a servent, then a prophet, then a Rasoul, then he became the khalil, a level only obtained by him. No other prophet reached this level but he also reached a higher level Imama. He became an Imam. So he even went a step further in knowledge and wisdom and Allah(swt) bestowed on him this level. So What about the Prophet Muhammad. Lets us examine the last part of the verse. When Ibrahim(as) asks will there be Imam’s from my offspring Allah(swt) answers so perfectly. He says “My covenant does not include the UNJUST”. Meaning that in order to be appointed by Allah he must be just in every aspect of his life and rule on earth. He must be infallible. Prophet Muhammad wasn’t only a Rasoul and a messenger but he was a Imam. But he is on the highest status of all, more than Ibrahim(as) why? Because he is Ahlul bayt and there is no one higher in status then them.

    Even the bible speaks about the 12 Imam’s coming. Abraham fell face down; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing! “Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” Genesis 17:17-21. But of course man or should I say the Jews played with the verse and added names to suit there needs. They gave these names Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. Genesis 25:13-16. But it cant be because the previous verses refers to the religious authority of prophets or Imams when using the words “rulers” or “kings”. Biblical authors refer to kings or others with secular power when using the same words. Proponents of this view identify the words “great nation” with the Muslim community and not with kingdom.

    Ismail ibn Kathir (Arabic: ابن كثير‎) (1301–1373) was an Islamic scholar and renowned commentator on the Qur’an. One of the highest Sunni scholars says this.
    “We see the following prophecy in the Taurat which is in the hands of the Jews and the Christians: “Indeed Allah, the Exalted, has given Ibrahim (a.s.) the glad tidings of Isma’il, and he has bestowed a favor and multiplied it and placed in his progeny twelve mighty (personalities)”.

    Abu bakr, Omar and Utham could not have been of the Imam’s because of there unjustly acts in this world that they have committed.

    Quran: Surah:33 verse:33 “‘Innamā Yurīdu Allāhu Liyudh/hiba `Ankumu Ar-Rijsa ‘Ahla Al-Bayti Wa Yuţahhirakum Taţhīrāan ” (Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (Thorough) purification. So with this present we can see why Prophet Isa(as) will pray behind Imam Al-Mahdi(as).

    The reason why Allah(swt) didn’t just come out and mention names in the Quran after the prophet Muahmmad is that people don’t take from other besides prophet Muhammad and forget about him. He is supposed to be the circle of the Quran because Allah is the center. Other prophets are named because they came before and didn’t come with the final revalation of Isalm. But if he had but like for example Imam Ali is the successor of the prophet and he put is names in the hundreds of verse describing him in general like Surah:2 verse:207, people might forget the prophet and remember Ali. Like the Aliawya who worship Imam Ali(as) astagfaralllah. There would be more people like that. This way no one can ever remove Muhammad from the Quran by presences. Zayaid his stepson is mentioned by name but that was for a religious and political reason which was neutral. Another thing just because it’s not word for word in the quran on what your looking for doesn’t mean it isn’t there. How do you know how to pray? It’s not in the Quran. How do you know that Magrihb is 3 rukas and isha is 4 thats not in Quran? You have to go to hadith to get tafseer (meaning of the verse in the Quran). So we need hadith and we must filter our hadith to know whats fake and whats real. Unfortananly ahlul Sunna doesn’t do that. They say all Sahih Bukhari and Muslim is true. Really? So you can accept a hadith that the prophet tried to commit suicide? Or the prophet whips people? Or to breast feed a older man so that you can take your scarf off in fron of him?

    Sahih Muslim Book 032, Number 6287: Prophet whips people
    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: O Allah, I am a human being and for any person amongst Muslims upon whom I hurl malediction or invoke curse or give him whipping make it a source of purity and mercy.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111: Narrated ‘Aisha: The prophet is suicidel!!!
    The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah’s Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read.” (The Prophet added), “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, “I do not know how to read,” whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, “I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?).” Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, “Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous…up to….. ..that which he knew not.” (96.15) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, “O Khadija, what is wrong with me?” Then he told her everything that had happened and said, ‘I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija said, ‘Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good reactions with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones.” Khadija then accompanied him to (her cousin) Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin ‘Abdul ‘Uzza bin Qusai. Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father’s brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the Gospels in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to him, “O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” The Prophet described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah’s Apostle asked, “Will they turn me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: “Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn ‘Abbas said regarding the meaning of: ‘He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)’ (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3428:
    Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon himy, saying to ‘A’isha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she (‘A’isha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah’s Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said: He has a heard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.

    These are hadith I could never accept and I will never. But when we present these hadith from the highest sunni books they are ignored and we are ridiculed. I myself am a bible scholar and I know the bible better than I do the Quran unfortunately. When I debate Christians what do I use as my sourse? The bible, thats all i need to show that Jesus(as) is not God. But when you present them verses; like for example in the book of Mark, chapter:10 verse:17-18 “As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life? Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone”. This verse speaks for itself w’Allah it does. But when you present it as proof you get a hundred stories and they try everything in their power to justify that verse. It’s the same thing when discussing with most sunnis.

    In Quran Surah:17 verse:71-72 “Yawma Nad`ū Kulla ‘Unāsin Bi’imāmihim Faman ‘Ūtiya Kitābahu Biyamīnihi Fa’ūlā’ika Yaqra’ūna Kitābahum Wa Lā Yužlamūna Fatīlāan Wa Man Kāna Fī Hadhihi ‘A`má Fahuwa Fī Al-‘Ākhirati ‘A`má Wa ‘Ađallu Sabīlāan. (On the day when We shall summon all men with their record, whoso is given his book in his right hand – such will read their book and they will not be wronged a shred. Whoso is blind here will be blind in the Hereafter, and yet further from the road.)

    The prophet has said “The book mentioned here is the record of deeds every individual will carry with him or her on the day of judgement. It will be visible to all. All human beings will appear with the guides (imams) they followed in their lives in the world. to give account of their deeds and faith. Blessed are they who follow the true guides (imams) of the Ahl ul Bayt, chosen by Allah and appointed by the Holy Prophet. The Holy Prophet said: “Verily I am the Imam among you. After me, Ali will be your Imam. After him, his sons in his progeny will be your Imams. Whosoever remains attached with them shall be saved and shall obtain salvation. Those who disassociate themselves from them shall go astray and will certainly be lost”. So, either follow the thoroughly purified Imams of the Ahlul Bayt (Prophet Muhammad, imam Ali Fatimah az-Zahra, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein and the 9 Imams from his progeny) who are the fountain-head of guidance, mercy and wisdom, so that you go before your Lord on the day of judgment with them as your Imams, or run after those who themselves were in need of guidance. The prophet has said “The Holy Prophet said:”Whosoever dies without recognising the Imam of his age dies the death of a pagan.”

    There is so much more, like for example do you why in the above hadith about the 12 Khalifas after the prophe,t why in the hadith they said “there was something we didn’t understand” but their all from Quraish. The names. Two of the highest Sunni scholars of the Safiah and Hannafi sunni sect have named these 12 khalifas and they are the 12 Imams(as). Abu bakrs. Omars and uthmans, unjustly rulings as khalifs, even if they were fit to be khalifa Uthman couldn’t have been because he wasn’t from Quraish he was bannya umayya. Who was at the door of Fatimah and burned her door down. Who stole her land. If the Khalifa was supposed to be a vote among the people why wasn’t Imam Ali present? Why did they do it when he was burying the prophet? Why did Abu bakr appoint Omar if a vote was to be the way of choosing a khalifa? Why did Omar make something haram that which the prophet and Alla(swt) make halal? Why did Omar raise his voice to the prophet and not let him right down the three things on the calamity of Thursday? Why didn’t Abu bakr and Omar both accept the prophets proposal to go out and fight for the sake of Islam against Amr bin dawood al3amari, where they not that strong in faith? Why did omar run in the battle of Uhad and scream out retreat the prophet is dead? So much more

    I have a final question for you When Imam Ali(as) was khalifa Ayisha went to war against Imam Ali(as). She rose an an army and left her home when she wasn’t allowed too, and declared war against the Khalifa of the time. Whichside would you have taken. Hadith narrates that one who goes to war against the khalifa is a kafar and is going to hell. Is she? once again what would you have done. Don’t say you would have not picked either side becasue Imam Ali(as) in Nahjul Balagha says “For those who refused to side with any party, Imam Ali or his enemies, Imam Ali said: They have forsaken religion and are of no use to infidelity also.

    This has been a wonderful conversation. Salaamu alaykum.

  22. Eleanor Says:

    Keep up the wonderful work, you’re my fav resource!

  23. Lizzie Says:

    I’ve been looking for this type of information for my research. Thanks

  24. Hamid Hussaini Says:

    MoMahdi:::::
    Man I just love how you answered those stupids,,,,I have read all your comments.
    May Allah protect you from any evils,,,,and bless u with His endless mercies.
    Ur comments helped me better than the article its self, regarding to some questions about Shia Islam that were inside me.
    May Bibi (Fatimah .as.) be pleased with you.
    Allah’humaa sallee ala Muhammad, wa aa’lihi Muhammad

  25. Hamid Hussaini Says:

    Yaa’ Allah forgive our Muslim brothers.
    And the Shia of Hazrat Ali (as).
    Ameen Yaa’ Rabilallameen.

  26. ZAYNAB ya Mathloma Says:

    MoMahdi, Allah bless you brother…May he increase and strengthen your knowledge. Also the post was great because I also used it in a debate…thanks again

  27. Combining Your Prayers « Faithfuls Says:

    […] http://www.shiacrescent.com/2008/07/04/is-combing-salah-haram-or-not/ […]

  28. Ajax Says:

    Welldone brother MoMahadi. I really love the way accompanied by ligitimate knowledge and sources that portrayed against anti-shia.

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